- This topic has 8 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 2 months ago by
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I would like to propose a radical ideal to REDUCE COSTS and allow practical Substitutions for our most commonly used Motor. This is mainly for cases when the spec’ed motors are hard to locate, 2ndly to allow members to have inexpensive spares for future races (since we use the 21.5ks in many series).
1. Allow the Piranha 21,500 motor for: ANY spec class requiring a 21.5 Motor, e.g. Slot-IT Group-C, Thunderslot, NSR models with 21.5/22k motors.
https://www.lebhobbies.com/piranha-slot-motors-215k-dual-armature-scan-motor-and-leads-p-6909.html
WHY
They are LOW cost $8 to $9. ALL similar motors cost at least $15, many $18-19
They Tach out at 21-23 on a consistent basis. The spec is the same as the old Slot.IT Orange Bell, and (except torque) as ThunderSlot. Close to the 23k Slot.IT SIMX16 (and 22k NSR) but more likely to tach closer to 21-22k than the 23ks (which seem to tach Higher than 23k).
They are readily available from LEB, SCC, Electric Dreams etc.
They provide NO competitive Advantage; (and no Disadvantage)
Dual full-size armature shaft
Tapped holes for motor screws
Pre-soldered Slot.IT style Silicone lead wires2. IMHO – it is silly for us to “chase motors” (example: if Slot.ITs or Thunderslots are temporarily hard to locate in stock) Ditto for paying $18 for spare motors when the same performance can be obtained for less than $9.
I cannot think of Any clear or logical reason to reject this proposal for either Technical or “Legal” reasons.
https://slotcarcorner.com/products/psm21-piranha-slot-motors
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I don’t understand the reasoning behind opening the rules to an additional motor.
Motors for the Slot.it, Thunderslot, and NSR series are all readily available and cost only $18. The difference is not that significant from a $9 Pirana motor in the overall price of a car. On top of that, it adds an additional layer of complication for the competitors by giving them one more choice to make when selecting a motor for a stock series. It’s easier for everyone when the rules allow one option as opposed to multiple motor choices. With the multiple motor choice rule, a competitor could potentially spend more money as they purchase a Pirana motor on top of a stock motor in a quest for the best motor. I think it’s easier for all members – new and old – to have the rules be as simple and easy to follow as possible. No need to complicate things.
I am all for allowing the multiple motors options in an open series where many of the parts are open to a competitor.
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Marty – careful reading of the proposal is for the conditions of the normally spec’ed motor to Not being readily available. If people want to buy additional motors, they can and will as they do now. Members personally control their costs, not any rules.
The existence of rules allowing alternatives does not Force anyone to spend more and in this case, if someone no longer has any spare Slot.IT 21.5 orange bells, black end-bell SIMX15 (21k DTM) or white end-bell SIMX16 (23k), why can’t they have the Option to replenish their spares for $9 a motor vs. $19? If a member wants to stock up with 3 new motors, $27 seems like a better bargain than $57 (again for no technical or legal advantage).
I suggest we have this and tire options Voted on by the membership. The 21.5 Piranhas have been out for a few years so they are a stable alternative and readily available from several retailers.
Regarding complexity – there is none. As I proposed, and as we have used in other series for gears and some other parts, there would be limited options:
E.G. for Slot-IT classes – we already allow: Classic MX06 (21.5), black end-bell SIMX15 (21k DTM), white end-bell SIMX16 (23k)
All I am suggesting is add another alternative closer to the classic Orange bell (Piranha PSM21 (21.5k))/.
https://www.homeracingworld.us/PitRow/PiranhaMotors/piranhamotors.html
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Mark
I am reluctant to propose an automatic replacement motor in advance of the need. The need is not a regular occurrence and I think it would be better to address on a case by case basis.
The same thing goes for tires. If original tires become unavailable or just don’t work, then a replacement tire can be specified. To specify options available for what should be a spec class in advance of it being necessary, complicates decisions for the racer.
Russell
Russell
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Russ & Marty and club: My suggestions are to think about these options now and be prepared to consider them When and If the need arises.
I am really struggling how either of these two ideas add to complications for our members. Even in the last two years we have had a few series with a boat-load of options for brands and models of car, including some with multiple options regarding motors and wheels/tires – so not sure how any of this is any More complicated than that.
And seriously, if we can use a $9 motor that has the same performance as a $19 motor, why would we Not want the members to be aware of this and be able to Vote on it?
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If David or Erik or Marty propose a change or option my radar signals discovery of an advantage. Like Erik’s high magnetic downforce motor. As long as we all know the advantage before the series and can make use of it I’m ok, but I would bet a box stock class would have some Smokey Yunick voodoo added or subtracted.
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Mark
My first objection to the motor proposal is that it is unnecessary. If it is an unnecessary rule, it is a complication. We do not have any motor problems now. If one develops, we can select a replacement.
As you state your proposal, the Piranha would be substitutable now for ANY slot.it Group C or various NSR motors. that is a complication for a stock class. Even if the Piranha is comparable to those motors, if there is a chance it might perform better, racers will want to check it out. Nine dollars for an unnecessary motor is nine dollars the racer does not have to spend. The spec you mentioned for the Pirahna is a 2,000 rpm range. That is a lot, and probably worth checking against the stock motor, or buying more motors to see if you can score a good one.
Our yearly series try to have a mix of spec-type box stock classes and open-type classes. The spec series are easier for new members to set up. If we start adding options to the spec classes, they become less spec.
Russell
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All – my key objectives were simply:
1. Make members aware that a stable-performing (the ones I have anyway), spec-equivalent to the classic Slot.IT Orange end-bell MX06 21.5k motor, is commonly available for only $9
** it has a black end-bell, exactly like the Slot.IT MX15 21.0k DTM motor
2. Suggest that when/if any supply-chain or performance issues seem to appear, in the future, with any 21.5- 23k motors, that the membership be allowed to propose, and vote on, domestically available alternatives.
Thanks for discussing the idea. “Case closed” for me anyhow 🙂
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Did I just say that out loud?!
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