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This is the head thread of the series discussion for 2021 – NSR GT 3 Series.
This series will be run from April – June 2021.
Series Manager: Mark Lucas / Spyder #21
Rules will be posted on the main page; under “Race Rules” > “2021 Racing Series”
Questions about the rules will be covered in this forum thread.
** Rules will not be duplicated in this forum thread.
NSR Reference: https://www.nsrslot.it/assets/models/modelli.htmlCandidate Cars:
Aston Martin Vantage (ASV)
Audi R8 LMS
BMW Z4
Corvete C6R
Corvete C7R
Mercedes AMG GT3
Porsche 997 GT3 -
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Randy,
All of these cars are available in both versions and some are also available with an inline configuration. You can tell by the part number of the car. Part numbers that end in AW are angle winder, part numbers that end in SW are side winder and part numbers that end in IL are inline. The preferred set up is Side Winder or Inline. The Angle Winder configuration has not been as successful.
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The 2016 ‘Modern GT’ series was very open, and included some of the NSR GT-3 cars available at the time. However, for this 2021 series, limited to the NSR brand, we will vote on what pod configuration to allow (in light of per Marty’s observation that angle-winders are typically too problematic.)
What is challenging is that many of the current NSR GT-3 models & liveries are only offered in Angle-winder configs; meaning that to comply with a Side-winder-only rule (or to reduce the problems with the long-can AWs) owners will have to replace pods with either rectangular or triangular SW pods (as per the car’s config) and replace the long-cans with Shark-22 or – 25 (a Shark-22k should provide enough ‘Umph” in these cars).
Overall this should not be a problem; since many of us have surplus SW Pods and Shark-22/25 motors we can re-use, and or swap/sell with other members who bought a AW GT-3.
Also different from the 2016 Modern-GT series will be more spec for NSR branded parts, hard glass and cockpit, etc. Of course I will accept comments and we will vote on the final specs. [this Must be settled fairly soon tho since we need to have Rules finalized before end of Feb]
**Randy – you just can’t use that ‘special’ motor from “he who shall not be named” – LOL!
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NSR Summaries of the GT-3 Cars
https://www.nsrslot.it/assets/models/modelliCategoria/asv/asv.html
https://www.nsrslot.it/assets/models/modelliCategoria/audi_R8/audi_R8.html
https://www.nsrslot.it/assets/models/modelliCategoria/bmw_z4/bmw_z4.html
https://www.nsrslot.it/assets/models/modelliCategoria/corvetteC6r/1077_corvette/1077_c6r.html
https://www.nsrslot.it/assets/models/modelliCategoria/corvetteC7r/CorvetteC7r.html
https://www.nsrslot.it/assets/models/modelliCategoria/mercedes_amg/0115_Mercedes-kit_completo/0115_Mercedes-AMG.html
https://www.nsrslot.it/assets/models/modelliCategoria/porsche_997/997.html -
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[postquote quote=15893]
Marty, my comment was based that on the NSR site, many of the Audi’s and C6R Vettes are listed only as AW, (all white-kits are AW). You are correct – the Merc, C7R, A/M ASV, R8, 997 are listed in both configs.Vendors with Good Selections of SW: ~ $90usd
Professor Motor, Electric Dreams, LEB Hobbies; PendleSlotLimited Selections of any NSR: @12/18/20
Clover Leaf, SCC, NCP Hobbies, 132Slotcar -
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NEED MEMBER FEEDBACK – 2021 GT3
1. CHASSIS
Do we wish to restrict chassis to the out-of-the-box, OEM installed chassis – Medium Black (part# is specific to each body style)? Or do we wish to open up to the harder Green and White chassis?2. POD
Do we wish to restrict pods to the out-of-the-box, OEM installed SW chassis – typically Hard Red NSR-1264? I see no advantage or rational for using softer pods :O3. MOTORS
a) If you buy a GT3 with a Sidewinder, the current models ship with a modern Shark-25 (3043, 25k, EVO, 180gm TQ) vs. the older shark-25 (3003, 25k, 176gm TQ).
b) The legacy Shark-22 is not being offered by NSR in their current catalog; altho many vendors still have some in stock; PLUS many of us have them from the 2017-917 series. The replacement is the Shark-21.5 (3041, EVA, 21.9k, 164gmTQ)
c) Do we wish to spec the 3043 as the only motor- to enhance a “level playing field”? or open the spec up to any NSR below 25Krpm, allowing people to use existing spares? -
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Mark
I do not have a lot of experience with the NSRs. On the chassis I would be OK with stock or harder chassis.
I would prefer the stock red motor pod.
I am not familiar with the various NSR motors. I will probably use the stock Shark-25 motor myself, but I would not object to allowing any short can NSR motor up to 25K
I would also be in favor of allowing changes to the cars between races. That is, that we could change motors, tires, gears, and other parts between race days. In various series in the past we have allowed members to change what car they want to use on any given race day, but I don’t think we have had the option as part of the rules.
Russell
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I would prefer to allow screw in guides but am happy with any decision.
I am not a fan of the lexan interior as its just one more item we have to purchase and its not a necessity. It’s not like this part is needed for the car to operate on our track. It’s not like the stock interior is contacting the wheels or motor and holding back the performance of the car. It’s purely a luxury item that potentially make a fast car go slightly faster.
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Yes to screw in wood track guides. Happy New Year for something I know.
What is the consensus among the top car prep and drivers about the chassis, motor pod, and tires. I just started baking the chassis’ last year or 2018, but don’t know about the hardness on our track. Come on guys, give up the good parts numbers.
Aren’t these the cars with wheels that have some air chamber ribs? Did we change those, or modify them, to make tire truing better?
I really hope I am allowed to compete on Saturdays in this class, but I would just like to have a car that drives great when I am by my self at HQ with the sound system blasting. I was thinking last night that I might bring the amp and guitars to check the acoustics at HQ. I only play into headphones with youtube wired into the amp, except for rare times my wife is out of the house. Maybe we could start a house band, The KN95’s or Twin Turbos.
Stay Safe, I want to pass each of you at the finish line in 2021.
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Randy – No need to bake the NSR chassis. They are made from a different material and don’t take to baking like the Slot It’s harder plastic chassis. The stock chassis seems to work well. The white one is the next one of choice. NSR also makes a green super hard chassis but I don’t know if there is a big difference between the white and green from a performance standpoint.
I would keep the stock motor pod and run it. These are typically red in color.
Wheels and tires – I would run the stock ones as they are the SuperGrip tires that seem to work well on our track. NSR also makes an UltraGrip tire but they are almost too sticky for our track. The wheels will be the ones with the ribs and the air chamber in the center. You can run those but you have to make sure you glue the tires to the rims to avoid wheel chatter in the turns.
Goodluck with your set up!
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GUIDE is 4859, correctly stated in the rules.
Rules are current and correct. If not – let me know 😈
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If buying a new or replacement GT3, consider adding these items to your cart:NSR4859 guide (x2 one for GT3, the other for the F-86/89)
Spare Zero-Grips (NSR-5226) 18dx8w -or- (NSR-5201) 17dx8w Spare Supergrips (NSR-5230) 20dx11w
Brass axle adjustment screws. https://www.professormotor.com/product-p/pmtr1146.htm
A Shark-3041-21.5k (rated at 21.9k) motor if you plan to experiment with motors; https://www.professormotor.com/product-p/nsr3041.htm
24z and 25z INLINE crowns for the F-86/89 – make sure they are for the 3/32 axle (not 2mm) with part #s like nsr6324, nsr6325 https://www.professormotor.com/product-p/nsr6324br.htm -
Guys I have listed all the generic parts that are either mandatory (so u can buy spares) or Optional. Sorry – I will not list ALL model specific parts such as the Hard White chassis or Extra Hard Green chassis – you are smart enough to find and buy those.
Options: Chassis OEM Black/Medium hardness; Recommended: Hard-White or Extra-Hard-Green chassis
Examples: ASV WH1459, GR1488; C7 WH1492, GR1494; R8 WH1475, GR1486; Z4 WH1463, GR1489 etc.
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Required: OEM Pinion: 6.45mm-DIA 11z NSR-6911A (NSR does not have any other 6.45 pinions)
Option: Sidewinder Spurs OEM 17.5mm-DIA 32z NSR-6032; 6030, 6031 – 6037
Open-Choice: Gear-Ratio (OEM: 32/11 = 2.91 therefore rear wheel RPM 7,875 = (25,000 * 11v/12v) / 2.91)
HOT: 31/11 = 2.82 ~ rear wheel RPM 8,127 IFFY 30/11 = 2.73 ~ 8,395 -
UPDATE: Any NSR gears are allowed. If you have an older GT3 car that you can make legal for this series – whatever NSR gears you have in it can be used. Whatever pinion and spur diameter (OD) combinations you can make work will be OK.
Required: OEM Pinion: 6.45mm-DIA 11z NSR-6911A (NSR does not have any other 6.45 pinions) -
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NSR GT3 TEAM OWNERS – Please ‘register’ yourself and car here:
— Identify the car you plan to enter (livery/#/driver name; or vintage/white-kit/test GT3s with model/color/# etc. Optionally: add image from your phone, the WWW, of the model you plan to enter.
— If you are entering a custom livery an image of the full size car is OK
— Duplicates Permitted – as usual please change the Number, Wing Color etc.
— Write name on bottom of car with silver or white Sharpie -
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Looks great Randy; looking forward to you racing 1×1 again!
P.S. If anyone is using the Thunderslot Foam Donuts; the “donut holes” can be trimmed to be used as Wing supports.
— Cut one edge flat; measure wing strut length (appx 4-5mm); cut bottom flat; trim leading and trailing edges with angular cuts. Keep width to match the top (fattest part) of the struts.
— After the angles look good; glue to the inside of the wing struts with a small dab of ShoeGoo.
100% Optional -
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SETUP NOTES: After 20 minutes of painstakingly adjusting my axle/tire height, when thumbing my front tires with the car on its back, I discovered them rubbing the oddly shaped light buckets. Carefully grinding down all the various bumps from the bucket will be Permitted to resolve the contact; as well as adding a thin washer to the body post; or other innovative ideas. NO, truing the tires some more did not completely remove the contact; and I am running the stock size NSR-ZeroGrips. Note: I did Not have this contact issue with my C6R in 2016.
WEIGHT TUNING NOTES: My C7R Wheelbase is 85mm (axle to axle). Centerline is 42.5mm, appx 2mm forward of the Drop-Arm pivot (The Centerline is placed over the middle of the gap between the scales)
My C7R Vette weighs 75gm; the textbook weight distribution is between:
Front 40% / 30gm Rear: 60% / 45gm
Front 45% / 33.75gm Rear: 55% / 41.25gmAs stock, my car’s distribution was:
Front 36% / 27gm Rear: 64% / 48gmAdding 5gm to the nose of the pod[1]: car=80gm
Front 40% / 32gm Rear: 60% / 48gmNOTES: Each model will have different centerlines; each car will have unique weights. Depending on the location the weight is added, will affect the front/rear balance[1]; weights on the Pan “wings” may be easier to tune than a single weight on the motor pod.
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I will be running the Audi R8 that I used in the clubs Modern GT series back in 2016. The car has some miles on it but should be up for the test against the large field of Corvettes. Here are the images of the car new and one of the crash that took out the rear wing and caused some additional body damage.
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I need to get caught up on my reading of our expectations…I THINK we’re allowing masked men to show up at the events. With many of us getting the vaccine or on the list, and since I’ve been able to successfully avoid getting the ‘vid with how I am managing my interactions, I’d be comfy jumping back into in-person action.
I don’t have a car yet, but I plan on getting caught up a bit over the weekend on our messages and will likely make a purchase since I love GT3 cars. I may not make the 10th as that is planned to be my first kart race down in New Braunfels, but if it rains, we don’t race due to the extra slippery nature of the concrete there…it becomes a true skating rink, even with rain tires so for safety’s sake they tend to cancel. In that event, I’d love to be slotting.
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So based on the notes from last weekend’s meeting, this GT3 event will be a “driver present” event and not proxy. I do want to verify that before I pull the plug on a car. I plan on running the BMW Z4 Presentation Livery, but only if I can drive it. Sorry – but proxies just don’t excite me. The livery comes as a #1, but I can change that if the Audi’s already existing #1 is a hiccup to the plan.
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Erik
I plan on driving my own car and I believe Randy does as well. Presumably if someone else wants to enter the race but is yet reluctant to race at HQ, one of the members that does attend could race his car as a proxy driver. We should, therefore be able to run the race as a regular owner/driver series.
Russell
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SM COMMENTS:
ERIK (and others)
1 Re BMW-#1 Z4, if you are planning on the White Presentation livery- that should be NP.
2 If you can attend, great – yes show up masked and enter the fray.
3 If you cant (b/c of the kart race) – you can either drop that Round (the normal process) or leave your car and ask someone to be your Driver for round-1.
4 In general, anyone wanting to field a car but not able to attend (regardless if due to Covid, health, travel issues); they can hire another member as their driver.(I am considering hiring John to build my car and Steven to drive – based on recent GP-C history LOL. I will deal with sponsors, organizing the VIP Tent and post race parties etc.)
Seriously – if you want to enter a car but cannot attend in person, reach out to another member … let’s keep this simple and ‘easy’
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TUNING NOTES
MOTOR – At the series voltage of 11v, some people testing Vettes are experiencing the 25k motor to be “too-hot” (jackrabbit hops and fishtails); even with Low gearing (e.g. the OEM 32/11 = 2.91 ratio, or 33/11 = 3.0).
Conversely, the 22k or 21.5k motors may need Higher gearing (2.82, 2.73) to go below 4.3s.BALANCE – the nose on the Vettes are light, so some weight behind the guide (~3 to 4gm) or on the nose of the motor-pod (~ 5-7gm) may be something to experiment with.
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Hey – I hate to drop this on you guys but here’s some calcs that defy the recent idea of using the 22k/21.5k motors (at 11v). Since we are using S/W gears our options are limited.
Also – I did the numbers using 12v and 11v and not surprisingly, 11v favors the 25k motor and 12v favors the 22k/21,5 motor.11 VOLTS
25,000 motor rated, * 11/12v = 22,800 effective
Rear wheel RPM Ratio Spur/pinion
8085 2.82 31/11
8056 2.83 34/12
7835 2.91 32/11 OEM/Stock22/21.5 rated, avg of 21,750 * 11/12v = 19,938 effective
Rear wheel RPM Ratio Spur/pinion
8100 2.46 32/13
7975 2.50 30/12
7728 2.58 31/1212 VOLTS
25,000 motor rated
Rear wheel RPM Ratio Spur/pinion
8091 3.09 34/1122/21.5 rated, avg of 21,750
Rear wheel RPM Ratio Spur/pinion
8146 2.67 32/12
7967 2.73 30/11
7713 2.82 31/11So – at this point I am thinking we should stick with 11 volts since if most people have stuck with the stock motor there are less gear combinations they have to experiment with.
IDEAS?
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I don’t have a lot of experience or parts for NSR. My Corvette came with the 25K motor. I tried it for the first time today with a 33-tooth spur; it was undrivable. Even with weight it was very twitchy, especially under braking at the ends of the long straights. I ordered 34- and 35-tooth gears today. I still plan on running with the 25K motor, hoping that the higher numerical gearing will be enough to calm it down. I am ordering a 36-tooth gear as well.
Russell
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RUSS – yes I too spent several hours this Sat & Sun trying to either a) break 4.1 or b) have a car that did not jack-rabbit in the straights or fishtail in the corners. The Supergrips marbled a little and contributed to both the jumps and slides.
After too many 4.4s, I switched back from the 22k motor to the 25k OEM motor; and went back and forth from the 32z (OEM) to 31z spurs. With the 32z I could barely break high 4.3s; with the 31z I clocked a few mid and high 4.2s but mainly stayed in the 4.3s My pinion is a 11z (OEM spec).
I also experienced more rubbing on the front tires (I need to double-check to see if I am running the 17mm or 19mm NSR-No-Grips)
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I have 300 laps on my mostly stock Corvette with 25k motor and stock gears. The front guide is the deep wood guide. There is some lead in the chassis now. In front of the front tires were two posts on the chassis that did not serve any purpose other than to groove my low profile tires and stop any coasting! They have been clipped. My best lap today was 4.195 driving pretty conservatively, only pulling the trigger 100% on the front straight most of the way out of the curve. Very little brake and nice slow sensitivity. I decided not to change the drive train until we figure out what works better than stock. Drive for me April 10th while I am at the Leander baseball game. All the best, for I hope, my last semi-“proxy” race.
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NSR TIRE TRUING NOTES
COMPATIBLE NSR TIRE TRUERS -
FRONT TIRE RUBBING
You are allowed to remove the studs and trim the back of the light buckets and add a washer to the front post if needed.
GT3 FRONT TIRE RUBBING
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