2021 Racer Sideways Group 5 Rules

Why did we change the motor rule to only s-can when the long cang was used last time for my Capri?

Randy - Great question.  The main reason was to limit the number of differences between the cars so people would not have to spend more money or more time going to the track to try out different options to find the best set up.  It's better in these proxy races if the parts can be kept as similar as possible between all the runners.  I thought everyone would have a short can they could use as those are the same motors we use for just about every other series we run.

The last Group 5 race had rules that were much more open and allowed racers many options to find the fastest car - just like the real Group 5 rules.

Marty

The last Group 5 rules were great for racers to learn with different motors, tires . This just makes it another slot it race. There are no F30 s to find so all we have is 22 to run. It would be great to open this back up.

I understand your point of this being just another Slot It race and you are somewhat correct.  The idea is to have a series that is easier for everyone to set up their cars for by making as many of the items as similar to those the majority have already worked with - Slot It cars and parts.

The series will be very different than Group C or DTM as the cars are very different and the set up will be different.  The parts will be similar but that is where it stops.  Proxy races are not the time to give participants multiple parts options as it just makes setting the car up that much more difficult to say nothing about the short time frame everyone is under to get a car ready for the first race on the 9th of January.

I am all for races where there are multiple options for cars and parts but now is not the time.  Once we get through COVID we can get back to more "open" style series races.

On the F30 tires - I just checked the popular slot car retailers and almost all of them have F30's in-stock.

Professor Motor - only two sets of 4 left in stock

Electric Dreams - 12 sets of 4

132slotcar.us - 10 sets of 4

LEB Hobbies - has them in-stock

Cloverleaf Racing and Slot Car Corner - No longer stocking all the Slot It tires as they are promoting their own Quick Slick and Paul Gage tire lines

Its not easier when I have to rebuild my car from top to bottom. Last time I used lexan interior now I can't find the original . They don't have 30s that are any good I've already showed you that I have three unopened packages at my house that turn to gum when I true them. The last ones I bought were from 132 and there nothing but crap.

One of the reason we voted for this race is because we had cars ready to go. As of now I can't race. You guys have fun.

Even though Butch beat RadialTA regularly, last year, I was prepared to race him again.  Now I am gathering parts to rebuild a car I liked.

David - Sorry you see it that way.  Would you prefer the tire choice to be open to NSR tires?  I have been truing F30 tires with no problem.  I have to take off only a small amount of rubber at a time and it takes much longer to true them but I am still able to do it.  You could always run N22's.

I hope you are not putting the cars in parc ferme between races.  That would be discouraging.  I have no idea if my Capri is competitive until I get a clean track and competition runs.

Randy – Everyone will be able to work on their cars between races for the Group 5 race as well.

We didn’t keep the cars in parc ferme while running the Thunderslot proxy.  We kept them in parc ferme only for the Slot It DTM race because the folks from Houston would not be able to work on their cars so to keep it fair we did not work on our cars between the races.

F-30/SIPT28 ISSUE
The problem David was referring to is that the Slot.IT F-30s (SIPT28) - with a 2018 Date, seem to be gummy and marble/shed easier than earlier versions. They do not tolerate Lighter-fluid well, for example when dressing the tires before a round or heat. They *look* good in your hand then marble up on the track, taking 3 to 7 laps to shed and then true themselves on the track, (then after 50 laps they started to shed & chunk[1])  While being trued they seem to absorb -and retain- the L/F more than older versions.
The date sticker is on the lower right hand of the hanger-card face, below the label and bar-code.  Previous versions did not seem to have a date. King's last batch of F30s were 2018s.
Many online vendors still have these tires in stock (but you will not know if you are getting the 2018s until you open the shipping box).
-----
Like Dave, most of my 'fresh', bagged F30s are the 2018 versions. They shed dramatically during the 2020 DTM Proxy. After every round they became out-of-true due to lost material [1]. After round-3 my tires were toast.

Mark

Thanks for the info.  I have never had a problem truing F30s (F15s, yes.  F 22, sometimes) but  in checking my supply I see that I have older F30s, some dated 2015 and some 2012.  Are all the 2018 and later tires the new, problematic compound?

Russell

"Russell - Are all the 2018 and later tires the new, problematic compound?"
YES-The older vintage do not seem to marble or shed like the 2018 versions.  Not sure if any 2019 or newer are affected.

The 2018s have a noticeable white sticker on them, so they are easy to ID.

When truing the 2018 F30s, do not use Lighter-fluid.  When smoothing/dressing before a heat, only use lighter-fluid on a rag with a light rub.

I have had issues truing the tires but they can still be trued.  They do take more time to true and you have to keep an eye on them.  I still use lighter fluid on them with no issues.

I am using a Hudy truer with a diamond drum.  I clean the drum with a Wright Way drum cleaner a couple of times during the truing process to make sure I am removing as much of the tire residue as possible.

The big question here is - what is the solution?  Are people requesting to run NSR or someother tires?

Marty

After removing the Sideways rear wheel inserts, I found that they do not fit the Slot.it wheels that I intended to run.  Despite the rules, would it be allowable to use Slot.it inserts?

Yes.  I did not know they would not fit in Slot It wheels.  Good to know.

Marty

Upon further checking, I see that the wheels on the Sideways are larger than the 15 X 8 Slot.it wheels (PA-17) that I normally use.  They may be more the size of the 16 X 8 (PA-43) Slot.it wheels.  I do not have any of these wheels to check.  I have always found the Slot.it wheel nomenclature confusing.  In the old catalogs, wheels will be listed as 15,8 X 8,2 (commas, not periods); the part number is PA 17 and the description on the label of the parts package is 15 X 8 Wheels.  Other wheels are listed as 16,5 X 8,2 and the part number is PA43.  I don't have any of these to see how the package is labeled.  I have typically used the 15 X 8 PA17 in either aluminum or magnesium form for most of my cars.  Our Group C rules allow for either the PA17 or PA43 size.  Assuming lighter weight and smaller diameter for  lower center of gravity favor the smaller size, I do not know if the PA43 larger size have any disadvantage (or any advantage).

Concerning the Sideways cars, is only the PA43 Slot.it size allowed?  Since I have none, and considering the issue with the inserts, I will probably use the stock Sideways wheels.

Thanks

Russell

Upon further checking it looks like the Sideways rear wheels are 17 X 8 and the front wheels are 15 X 8.  It is also confusing because the millimeter dimensions are close to the inch dimensions of the real world cars.

Russell and All,

Racer Sideways use 17" rear wheels and 15" or 16" front wheels depending on the model.  The wheel inserts from Racer Sideways wheels will fit in the equivalently sized Slot It wheels.  The rear wheels on some models are 8mm wide and others are 10mm wide depending on the model.  I am not going to be too hard on things like the inserts.  As long as a car has inserts I will be happy with it.

1 First a correction, the 2018 PT28s have the 2018 printed on the card next to the bar-code, not on a white sticker (altho I could swear some did have a sticker?)
2 Marty - I would like to open the tires up to BRM30s and NSR Supergrips, as long as they are close to the resulting installed and trued size of Slot.IT tires on Slot.IT/racer wheels.
I dont think these would give anyone ad advantage, but it could help some people who are dealing with marbling tires.
3 Can you provide either info on where to get the drum cleaner, or bring some to the track?
The club's Backrack-2 truer marbled my virgin, 2018 F30s/pt28s last weekend. I did my best to clean the abrasive drum (which may have lighter fluid in either the rubber or the abrasive) but it still resulted in a trued but gummy set of tires.

Mark - Thanks for the feedback on the Slot It F30 tires.  I think its too close to the start of the first race to allow a new tire in the mix.  I am up for having a review of the tire rules and making changes for the following rounds.

The rules would have to stipulate a maximum tire width of 10mm since Slot It tires are only available in a 10mm width for those that would still like to use Slot It tires.

I have been truing Slot It tires for both the Group C series and the Group 5 series and have had to do it slowly but have been able to true them without having issues.  I have had to apply more lighter fluid during the truing and I only remove a small amount of rubber at a time.  I also use the Wright Way diamond drum cleaner during the truing process.  My drum still has some rubber on it that will not come off but it still does a good job.  I follow up the drum truing by using 400, 1000 and 1500 grit sandpaper to smooth out the tires.

UPDATE ON THE CLUBS BACK-TRACK-2 TRUER
This weekend I was able to clean the abrasive drums with a toothbrush and mild soap solution.
NO the abrasive did not pebble and the paper backing was not affected.

TIRES
Sticking with the F30/PT28s for this series. Mine are marbling on the shoulder but the crown tread area seems ok (kinda like a F22 shedding).