2021–NSR Formula 86/89

SOURCES
Athough not officially approved as a series yet, (@11/30/20) many members seem interested in the NSR Formula 86/89 cars as a 2021 series.

The cars are available from many popular retailers: Pendle, Electric Dreams, CloverLeaf, LEB Hobbies
CloverLeaf: White & Test $63 Decorated $70 (many liveries) Spares-limited
LEB Hobbies: White & Test $70 Decorated $77 (many liveries) Spares- $1~2 higher than others
Power Hobbies: White & Test $70 Decorated $75 - 85. Spares-limited
Professor Motor: White & Test $70 Decorated $85 - 95. Spares-moderate
Electric Dreams: White $75 Test $80 Decorated $90-100. Spares-extensive, some higher than others; many DECALS available for Test cars.
PendleSlot: US prices are competitive with Electric Dreams. Liveries & Spares-extensive
....
SCC - no current stock @11/30
132slotcar.US - no current stock @11/30

NSR Formula 86-89 REVIEWS

DISCUSSION POINT - WHEELS & TIRES
Once this series has been approved and a series-manager confirmed; I think we should discuss wheel choices.
During unboxing the rear wheels appear "tiny" and in fact the OEM wheels NSR5021(13d x 10w) have a 10mm diameter rim with a max OD of 13mm at the ribs. [Upgrades NSR5022 (13d x 13w), NSR5026 (13d x 13w drilled)] This is smaller than NSR's legacy F1-rims, NSR5005 with a 14mm OD at the rib (12mm width).

Several reviews of the NSR Formula 86-89 cars mention this size difference as having a potential risk of rear-pan contact with the track (in climbs/drops). Basically if the rear tires are trued under a certain diameter, the end of the chassis may drag against the track in sections that are not flat.

It appears that the axle for the Formula 86/89 cars is the standard NSR sub-3/32 size[1]; and it appears larger OD tires would not interfere with the body, therefore it does not appear to be a hard *technical* reason why the NSR5005 14mm OD rims could *not be used.

NOTE: We previously used these rims and compatible tires (5220) on the 2016 Formula series (the NSR wheels were the same dimensions as the AllSlots). So members who raced the Allslot race in 2016 may have some leftover spare wheels and tires.
..........
[1] NSR and Thunderslot Axles = 2.37mm (2.99/32in)

My preference would be to use the stock supergrip tires.  I like having the Goodyear Eagle sidewalls, for more realism.  It would also save members from having to buy more parts, including inserts.

Russell

I agree with Russell.  I would like to keep this series as stock as possible to give everyone time to get used to the cars and save some money.  I would suggest stock everything except screws, braid, motor wire and gearing.  People can choose to upgrade the front and rear wings for the bendable versions but that is it.

Gearing could be an issue as NSR only produces the stock black 27th as well as a 25t and a 24t in-line crown gear.  I don't know of anyone who manufactures an in-line crown gear for the NSR axle diameter.  I have not run the cars so I don't know if the stock gear is adequate or if a lower gear is necessary.  It's crazy that there is not a 26t crown available from NSR.

I would vote for everything stock except for:  1) a specified tire for front and rear, 2)body and pod screws open choice, 3)braid open choice, 4)motor wire open choice, 5)any NSR crown and pinion gears.

Thoughts?

I will love to race the F1 myself if decided by the majority to schedule the race later in 2021

In general I agree with the "stock" spec, except with the chassis clearance issues I mentioned above. Tire issues seem to be a recurring challenge and while I don't want to have a situ. where people are spending a fortune on tires to be *competitive ... we have had more than one series where many of us did spend lots of money trying to get good sets of tires, just so our car was not a dawg spinning on marbled or nippled rubber.

In this case, if the tires wear down to a point where the pan is contacting the track, I don't want to be replacing tires every round (or every other round).

I would like to get input from John and Dave and whoever else actually has a 86/89 they can test and provide solid feedback.

Gear Options:
OEM 27/10 = 2.7 21,400/2.7 = 7,926
24/9 = 2/67 = 8,015
25/10 = 2.5 8,560
....
compared to a hypothetical 26z crown
26/10 = 2.6 8,231
26/9 = 2.89 = 7,405

I know we have all but finalized the decision to run the NSR F1 series due to the time they have been in market and the availability of cars and parts and I am all for running the NSR cars but this was posted today on Policars Facebook page.

SETUP NOTE - NSR FORMULA 86/89
Another oddity[1] with this car is:

As you will find out, the front axle height grub/allen screws are M2 (2mm diameter, 2mm length same as Slot.IT) and not the typical 4-40 (0.05 wrench head[2]) screws. Your car may come with a small bag containing the M2 screws.
There does appear to be enough meat to drill and tap the axle carrier section to use 4-40s.

[1] Other variations from NSR traditions: [a] 13mm diameter (at the rib/nib) wheels vs. the 14mm already in NSRs product line; --new tires to fit the new size wheels. [b] (as mentioned by 917) crowns are limited to 24, 25, 27 (missing a 26z?!)
[d] flexible/no-tear/crashproof parts do Not include the front suspension?!? // the good news is this part is cosmetic and does not contain the axle carrier./

[2] Diameter: 0.112inch * 25.4 = 2.84mm

PCAR07 Generic Modern F1; $65 pre-order
[1] Contains the multi-stage 'transmission' to allow a FF motor to be installed under the svelte body.
Similar to existing Policar and Scalextric drive trains.

Inline FF slim-can 25k motor (same size as existing Policar and Scalextric Formula cars)
Drive Train: 9T brass pinion / 25/16T plastic stepdown / 17T brass crown
Wheels - 11.5x20mm fronts, 14.5x20mm rears
Wheel base 108mm Weight 58g

PRO
-- pretty, modern shape, includes halo
-- FF motor with 1.5mm shaft, can be downgraded (18k) or upgraded (30k) with motors from ScaleAuto, Scalextric, Policar, Professor Motor
CON
-- Motor not similar to our other series.
-- Based on my experience with the FF motors they are not always very available (lots of Not In Stock)
-- 1.5mm Motor shaft has limited Pinions available (but 1.5 to 2mm sleeves are available)
-- Wheels and tires may have very limited upgrades or alternatives
-- Perhaps would need to be closed Brand series/class; may not be competitive with the NSR or AllSlot formula cars.

Rear Wheel RPM Estimates
25,000 / (25/9) = 25,000 / 2.7777 = 9,000 //25,000*(9/25) = 25,000*0.36= 9,000
9,000 * (16/25) = 9,000*0.64 = 5,760
5,760 * (17/16) = 5,760*1.062 = 6,117 ?? REAR WHEEL

About the rear tires of the NSR Formula cars, I don't see a problem with the stock assembly.  There seems to be plenty of  clearance out of the box, although I have not trued them yet.  There is much more clearance than with the Thunderslot cars.  Unless the tire formula has changed, there is a lot of history with the NSR Supergrip tires; we have used them in the past, as well as the softer Ultragrip tires.

Russell

The stock tires have plenty of clearance even after truing.  NSR's SuperGrip tires have always worked well on our track and in some quick testing of my car I don't see any reason to spec anything other than the stock tires.

NSR Formula 86-89 - Setup Phase-1
Sat Dec 12 I unboxed my NSR F 86/89 to see what challenges may be in the setup process.

GUIDE - the OEM guide is snap-in and has a short blade. I took out the slop with two Teflon spacers; during testing the guide performed fine.

FRONT AXLE ASSEMBLY
Tires and Wheels: The good news, the tires are heavy enough that nose ballast does not appear to be needed. The bad news, they have the typical NSR molding blisters, which may not be able to be totally removed from truing. The NSR Wheels use a 2.37mm (2.9858/32 inch) axle and hence I could not fit them on the large $400 double-truer.

I took out the fore-aft slop using 3mm axle sleeves. At first I tried some Slot.IT spherical bushings; they had a groove to snap into, but had resistance sliding vertically and did not stay in the uprights consistently. Bad News: The axle uprights are noticeably angled in (negative camber) which may add some binding.

Axle Height:
The axle uprights use M2 allen/grubs for axle height. These are Not the typical 4-40/3mm grubs used in other NSR chassis. The shipped 2mm(L)x2mm(D) screws are tiny so I threw them into my collection of Slot.IT grubs. I used 7mm SlotCarCorner oval-head M2s for the bottom adjustment (5 or 6mm would also be Fine); and 4mm for the uppers. The fit is *tight and takes patience to get the screws deep enough.
On my setup block, in the 0.015 cut, I flew the tires 1/2mm over track-height. Since our track is not perfectly consistent I cross-checked the height with my 0.025 cut, and they flew appx 1/4mm above track-height.
NOTE: The holes are very tight and a 0.91m torque-wrench may ratchet before you reach the desired depth. I had to use my NSR solid-shaft 0.91. The axle height process took at least 15 minutes to reach Goldilocks status.

WINGS AND BODY PARTS ETC
I pro-actively bought the no-tear flexible parts kit. I can't really see any difference between these and the OEM wings; so I left the wings alone. The body parts are "electronically welded" and appear very secure. Only problem, if they come off in a wreck the anchor posts will come off with the part.

Round Steering Wheel
As some have noticed, the steering wheel is disappointingly a spindly generic round version. Some people may want to scratch-build a steering wheel from styrene, or suitable static model rectangular parts.
I don't think there are many cockpit part kits with modern F1 steering wheels - for Scalextric or Carerra. AllSlot used to have a cockpit parts kit; but these don't seem to be available.
?? Maybe Russ or Marc can make some up? : )

GEARS
The OEM gears seem to have a good mesh and are noticeably quiet. The calculated rear-wheel-RPM is 21,400/(27/10) = 21,400/2.7 = 7,926 @12volts.
Other Gear Options: 25/9 = 2.78 = 7,698 24/9 = 2.67 = 8,015 25/10 = 2.5 = 8,560

REAR TIRES
Again these use smaller wheels (13mm Dia) than the 'standard' NSR F1 tires offered as replacements for other brands. Visually they still look very similar in size. Because of the smaller axle I could not true them (yet) - surprisingly they were relatively True out-of-the-box and handled very well.
Minor Issue: The sidewall brand letters flake off quickly.

PERFORMANCE
At 11 volts the car was very stable in the corners; but the speed felt "sedate". With a calc'ed wheel RPM of 7,266 (7926 x (11/12)) the perception seems spot-on.
At 12 volts the car was still very stable; and it's overall speed seemed moderately faster than at 11v, yet not as dramatic as would be expected with a jump from 7,263 to 7,923 RPM. Best laps were 4.3-4.2 but that should improve with trued tires and after everything else is "broke-in".

TIRES
The stock/OEM Formua 86/89 tires are very tight out-of-the-box; they do not seem to require gluing.

FORMULA STEERING WHEELS
Scalextric has "Detail Parts" and "Accessory Packs" for $3usd that contain a F1 style wheel with painted buttons (incl in the pack are a drivers head and mirrors). Electric Dreams have about 6 packs, PSR has about a dozen. They match Scaley modern F1 liveries, so you should find one with a color compatible with your car.
P/Ns include: W8450 W8693 W8739 W8848 W9048 W9137 W9361 W9531 W9532 W9714 W9715

Carrera F1 Bodies have a more accurate Square Steering Wheel:
These are not painted and are not offered in repair part kits; they have to be harvested from old bodies. Some are on shafts
  Others have small 90deg hook. You have to pop out the driver/seat partially to pop out the wheel assembly.

Rule revision needed for mandatory sidewinder arrangement,and
“ Wheel/tire must not protrude outside of the body when viewed from above, no exceptions – this includes axle float.”

Realize this is copied/pasted.

Marc T

And quit calling the fancy pattern on a tire the "thread".  It is TREAD.

Rules have been updated from the rough ones cloned from 917 coupe rules - hence the body and tire rules that did not make sense.

Note: Some rules across many of our series have been copied from other clubs that raced similar series and had rules that make sense in the UK or Australia, or for sponge tires (e.g. oil soaking) or legacy cars (e.g. wires controlling front axle height) or 1-24 (e.g. guide cannot be visible beyond the splitter).
Over the years some weird rules have been weeded out but others linger - LOL

Indycals has a nice range for F1 liveries of the period. I'm sure they can be made to work.

Indycals F1

Mark's idea about an IM driver with decent wheel in intriguing. Will be looking into that.

Marc t.

I absolutely love the work Marc does with Immense Miniatures but didn't see any modern-ish F1 drivers heads in his line up.  I have already purchased a driver head replacement for my NSR F1 car from Electric Dreams.  They carry a line called Interlagos Miniatures that produces pre-painted period correct F1 and Indy helmets that work great on the NSR F1 cars.  Worth checking out to improve the look of your car.

ELECTRIC DREAMS HAS DECALS FOR THE NSR F1-86/89
Atalaya Decals ADF119 NSR Formula 86/89, Rothmans (ADF119) = $12.99
Atalaya Decals ADF120 McLaren Marlboro, Keke Rosberg (ADF120) = $12.99
Atalaya Decals ADL0802 Red Bull = $7.99

(water slides)
https://www.electricdreams.com/Shop/?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=129

HELMETS Page
https://www.electricdreams.com/Shop/slot-car-parts-c-3/interlagos-miniatures-c-3_1768/

I ordered a set of decals purpose built for the NSR F1 86-89 cars from LEB Hobbies. They almost fit on the test car. Had a devil of a time getting them to conform, but this may because my setting solution is old.

BTW, Mission Models paint takes some getting used to, but I think I may be able to work with them.

[attachment file="16336"]

So, I'm calling dibs on #6 :)

My decals arrived from England and the numbers are 3 or 4 not the 6 and 7 originally indicated.  So I want my number to be either 3 or 4 to allow the single digit number on the nose.  Anyone already using 3 or 4?

POLICAR F1 Monoposto Trivia
I posted a detailed analysis of the Policar here: 15799
I recently got the Green Benetton livery from Kings. I will post a "unboxing" review soon.

To find other information on these cars:
Unboxing and Basics - Home Racing World   ;   Cincy Slots

Axle Tuning (Dave Kennedy)

Dave is Series Manager for F1 - but for this year, we are NOT planning to race the Policars against the NSR F1 86/89s.

Simple Solution to excessive NSR Crown Channel and Pinon Wear (paraphrased from Russell's email)

The OEM brass axle spacers on the outside of the motor pod bushings reduce movement of the crown gear "landing" or "channel" for the Motor shaft.  With the spacers against the bushings on one side and the wheel on the other, the axle has very little side to side play. The crown can then be set-screwed in the proper location for best gear mesh.
Additionally: you can trim the Motor Shaft to prevent Any contact with the channel on the crown.
ALTERNATELY:  "Axle Stop-Collars" like the one below the chassis in this picture, can be used on both sides instead of the brass spacers. The effect is the same, except the Stop-Collars must be carefully adjusted with an allen wrench to prevent too much friction with the bushings.

// JOHNS ISSUE REPORT //
After having major wear issues with the NSR aluminum-collar crown gear last week in practice, I installed a NSR crown gear with Brass collar. One thing I see is that the Valley-depth of the NSR crown gears (alloy or brass) forces the motor shaft against the left flange of the crown. That’s why the aluminum crown was so worn even with lots of grease. After carefully moving the pinion to allow clearance, it appears to work ok after about 45 minutes on the test roller. The brass NSR crown gear shows signs of gear teeth slightly binding as it did with the aluminum gear. Are other racers having the same issues with your NSR F1 gears?

I also tried a Slot.IT Brass-collar crown which is only .001 larger in axle diameter than the NSR. I ran the Slot.IT crown gear on the roller for 30 minutes at 4 volts. The fit and mesh seem far better than the NSR. See no vibration or out of round issues with the Slot.it gear.
I will put it on track next week. If it works, I would like to Propose the rule allow Slot.IT crowns.
I want the F1 series to be successful.

Lotus Jr.
///

John - please post a picture of your rollers/rolling-road !

Interested to know what alterations we will be allowed make to forestall failure of the crown gear hub. I replaced my crown with a brass hub NSR piece, because of Aluminum's propensity for galling.