2018 series talk

Soooo..... are you going to keep us in suspense or let us in on the idea?

tractor pull on a straight of the rally track ...

OK so what I propose is a modern le mans style race.  The way I envisioned it was it being both the 3rd and 4th quarter.  Race 1 would be group A runs prototypes and group B runs GT cars then the second race is the opposite and we go back and forth for a total of 12 races 6 in each category.  I would love to see some limit on the GT cars in hopes of actually making them a little slower then the proto-types.  So maybe GT limit to 20k motor and le mans is open (.?) Idk let me know what you all think

I like the proposed motor differentiation to make GT and Prototype run different lap times.  Would some heats mix the GT and Prototypes, or would the A and B grouping keep the heats "pure" each race?

Sounds interesting Stevo. What about actually spec'ing the LMP motors to be in a certain range, say 22k min - 25k max, and perhaps models like Flat-6-RS and Boxer-2?  Any ideas on spec'ing a particular motor pod orientation, say something challenging like anglewinder?

the issue I have with limiting it to motors is that we had an slotit orange endbell holding the record of fastest lap with a 3.712 for quite some time.  I am now thinking the GT car could be limited to 4 second lap time minimum anything below it does not count it could be an interesting challenge.

An article of the online magazine Sports Car Digest has details of an interesting catch all class we might consider for slot cars next year. I think it is group F with a wide range of cars from the Can-Am through Daytona Prototypes. I don’t want to clog the club site with this. How are we going to submit pre-meeting suggestions for next year like the 2 class proposal from Steve?

Randy,

Here is the paragraph describing Group F.

One of the more intriguing run groups was Group F, which combined 1983-2007 World SportsCar Championship and Le Mans Prototype entries along with 1966-72 Can-Am. It is rare to see a 2006 Riley Scott being pursued by a 1970 McLaren and a 2005 Audi R8 Le Mans Prototype, but it happened at the 2017 Spring Classic Laguna Seca. The 2005 Audi R8 LMP driven by Travis Engen won every time he started on the grid, scoring Group F victories on Saturday and twice on Sunday and winning Saturday’s one-hour vintage enduro that was open to all close-wheeled race cars.

I believe these cars were grouped together because they didn't have enough entries to make a WSC group or a CanAm group. They really do not belong together in a vintage race.

I would be for:

1. A Slot.it or similar Can Am class i.e. McLaren M8 D etc.

2. Modern WEC or Imsa Prototypes.

3. Slot.it Ford GT 40s Mk 1 & Mk II.

John B

/posted by Mark for Randy and John.
1. Group-F type series (like 2017 Spring Classic Laguna Seca): Combined running of 1983-2007 World SportsCar Championship, LMPs, and 1966-72 Can-Am cars.
2. CanAm (its been three years-2014 since our last)
3. Modern WEC and IMSA Prototypes (like the WeatherTech Series)
4. Slot.It Ford GT-40 Mk-1 & Mk-II

Let's get the discussion on series for next year.  As stated in the meeting, put your suggestions here and I'll put a survey together mid-September for everyone to vote on the ones they want.

I would suggest the following two series for 2018

1. NSR Porsche GT3 series.  Spec-ish series with everyone running a NSR Porsche GT3 car, sidewinder only and any NSR parts

2, FIA GT race for 1996 series.  Open.  Tons of cars to run from various manufactures as well as running any of the numerous Fly cars that now have a 3D chassis available for them.  Here is a simple list of cars:

McLaren F1 GTR short tail, Porsche GT1, Marcos, Venturi, Dodge Viper, Ferrari F40's, Porsche GT2

Lots of options from Fly that can be purchased on eBay for very little money then built with a 3D chassis and some Slot It/NSR parts to make a fun series.  The question is whether or not we would not allow the Mr. Slot Car McLaren F1 GTR as it might be too quick.  Having never run one I just don't know.  The Policar Ferrari F40 and the older Slot It F40's could be too fast as well.  I just don't want it to be a two make series - McLaren F1 GTR and Ferrari F40.

A serious suggestion this time ... covers common issues such as limiting cost, confusing rules, emphasis on driver skill over endless investment and equipment tuning. Normal and reasonable tuning allowed vs overly restrictive mods on spec cars.

1.ECONO SUPER-CARS
Scalextric Highly-resistant Audi-R8 and Bugati Veyron; both appx $40
Both have similar dimensions; both have the typical sidewinder 18.5k rpm motor.
R8: 86gm, w/b 83mm, len 142mm, wdth 62.5mm
Veyron: 88gm, w/b 85.5mm, len 140mm, wdth 63mm

EQUIPMENT MODS: Fr tires: ZeroGrip 19x10; Rr tires: F30, P6; B-Nova guide adapter, Slot.It DeepWood Guide; Slot.It smooth-shank body screws; Fantasy paint or decals encouraged; race number on side windows and upper left windsheild (GT style) required

TUNING ALLOWED: Motor break-in; front tire height adjusted with guide spacers; bushings and motor may be glued; bare minimum chassis trimming for float; post-cups can be flattened (for float) but cannot be shortened; rear OEM wheels can be trued; rear tires can be glued and trued (on TireRazor); Ballast allowed but max weight less than 92gm
PROHIBITED: Magnet, alloy wheels, non-OEM gears and axles, body lightening, non-OEM motor/guide wires, non-OEM glass
VOLTAGE: 12 or 13v - to be determined after some experimentation.

BENEFITS: Low-cost; single brand; controlled-specs but typical tuning allowed. Emphasis on FUN and DRIVING skill, -vs- 'no expenses spared' to turn 3.6s These cars are great looking and handle decent out of the box.

2.ECONO FORMULA
Scalextric High-impact F1s
Specs and rules similar to the ECONO SUPER-CAR
VARIATIONS: Rear tires Slot.It F22s (shore 22s for F1 wheels), or PaulGage Eurethanes if the F22s won't fit. Max weight 6gm over factory spec.

I like the idea of a low cost single brand controlled spec series but the big issue here is the variance with the motors.  That is why there were issues with the last impact resistant race - the GT Lightning series.  The ability to adjust your gearing to suit the power and RPM of the motor is key to keeping everyone competitive.  Without that its the luck of the draw of who got the better-faster motor.

CAN AM!  I'm working on updating the 2014 series list of real cars from 1966-1973 and slot cars manufactured for this series.  There are numerous new manufactures, cars and 3D chassis that could expand the stable of competitive cars.  I'll annotate the car chart to show which cars have Olifer, etc. available.  I am going to recommend that Racer Silverline (1/30) and Vanquish (1/28) not be allowed because they are too large.  If someone has a car from those companies that is measurably 1/32 that we can confirm we can add it.

I'll draft series rules.  We should also specify some chassis and wheel rules based on Russell's wild highly modified Porsche 917/30.  Resin bodies were allowed in 2014 so I propose we still allow them.

Since I expect to keep working on Saturdays at the golf course, I could only share Series Manager duties during non-daylight savings dates when I get off work at noon instead of 1:00 like now.  So consider being a Manager or co-manager.

ECONO Super-Cars Update
-- Open gearing being considered; per Marty's comments

PROPOSAL TEMPLATE
Attached is a Word doc you can download and/or print to document details on the series you want to propose. Yes, of course you can edit the document as you need for your series. PLEASE DELETE anything from the template that is NOT directly related to your series. You can also simply PRINT this out and manually pen in your specs and bring copies to the Oct meeting (strike out anything not related to your series).
Please do NOT copy in the existing rules about magnets, silicone, oil-soaking, wings, ballast, screws .... especially if they are not typically encountered in our races or rarely enforced. We got it - there are standard things we don't allow. Only discuss a variation, allowance or new restriction.
Please be very simple and direct to the point.

Attached is my proposal for an "Econo Super Car" series of Scaley High-Impact/Resistant:
-- Audi R18, Bugata Veryon, McLaren, Ferrari coupes
-- Motors must be the stock spec, but can be broke in and you pick from the best-of-the-litter. Perhaps all of us could break in our spare Scaley motors and bring them in to sell/trade?
-- The spur gear will be open, as per Marty's concern to be able to tune the car to accomodate the inconsistent RPMs of the motors.

Russell brought up the idea of running the new Revo Slot cars as a spec series.  They are a BRM metal chassis with a Proslot Porsche GT2 body.  There are currently only six liveries but they do make a white kit.  I believe this would be a fun series to run as the cars weigh much more and are typically more stable.  I have one on the way for the club to check out.  We could run this series similar to a Scaleauto or BRM series - one with limited modifications.  You would be allowed to change the gearing and tire durometer.  The kit even comes with a wood guide we could spec.

Looks super cool! Obviously availability will be a factor to consider when to run this series (4Q?) and we eventually need to locate the price.   $90?  $120?

The Revo Slot cars sell for $79.50.  All six liveries are available.  I have purchased one for the club to check out at the meeting.  To be honest, $79.50 is inexpensive considering it has a metal chassis and ball bearings.  The Thunderslot cars are $110 for plastic chassis.

Marty

-- "Factory stock" Carrera GT Class: WEC /IMSA - year range TBD but definitely no cars prior to 2013.

I will be sharing more details during the club meeting.

-Group C

I like the idea of the Revo-Slot spec series.  After the Goodwood series, which I really enjoyed, already having all the cars I built out for it, I have not had time to assemble and test unfamiliar cars for other series.  As has been said, maybe only tires and gears to change.  Everyone should be on equal footing.
For other series, I like Can Am, a spec Ford GT Slot.it series, and Trans AM.

[quote=11183]— “Factory stock” Carrera GT Class: WEC /IMSA – year range TBD but definitely no cars prior to 2013. I will be sharing more details during the club meeting. [/quote]

I'm ready to share the details:

"Factory Stock" Carrera GT Class (2015 to 2017):

-  Analog models without magnet + stock everything (wheels, motor, gears, etc).
- CG Slotcars Carrera guide adapter + Slot.it wood guide.
- NSR 5230 Supergrip (20.5 x11) rear tires + Stock front tires.
- Polarity switch can be removed and wiring replaced.
- Chassis sanding is allowed for float but gap should not be larger than the thickness of a credit card.

Models:

--- Aston Martin Vantage V12

--- Audi R8 LMS

--- BMW M6 GTLM

--- Chevrolet Corvette CR7

--- Ferrari 458

--- Ferrari 488

--- Ford GT RC

--- Lamborguini Huracan

Additional details:

Are you crazy? Stock gearing, plastic wheels??

Ok, as far as the plastic wheels go -- yeah, we need to give it a try. I have checked the wheels of 10 or so Carrera cars I have purchased in the past 4 to 5 years and found all to be round and centered.

Now, instead of changing the car gearing, each racer will be able to change the voltage of their lanes. We would still be limited to the power supply range (6 to 16 volts) but that is plenty to allow all cars, regardless of weight, to reach their maximum potential.

_____________

Car list may be changed.

More details on the attached spreadsheet.

OK everyone.  Please go to this link to vote on your Top 4 series for 2018.  We're already going to run Group C and a rally event, so we only need an additional 4 series to round out the year.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/YT99GG6

If you have any issues, contact me directly to work on a fix.

Ary,

Have you set up a Carrera car like what you are talking about in your 2018 series idea?  I am wondering how well the car worked with that set up?  Did the tires mount to the rims OK?  Are the wheels really all that round and true?

Marty

Marty,

Wheels are round and the rear tires suggested fit nicely -- fit better than the original front tires, but we can change that in the future.

I'm still working in the car but should have it ready by Saturday.

Ok,

Using the plastic wheels is out of the question. Not because the wheels are not round or because the tires do not fit well; the issue is simply that I cannot figure out a way to true tires on plastic wheels.

Taking the wheels out is a bad idea as it may enlarge the axle hole. Leaving them on, and trying to true using the Tire Razor truer is possibly just as bad - that truer is wrong in so many ways, I will save the "review" for later.

Anyhow, we can still race a Carrera based GT series but we would have to change the wheels; not what I had in mind.

Ary - Don't we have an Area 3 or Tire Razor truer that will allow us to true tires with axles that have pressed on wheels?  If not, we could use the old block of sandpaper and lowering the car on top of the paper with the motor running and true the wheels that way.  It worked for me when first starting off in slot cars.  It's not as good as a real truer but its better than nothing.  The club could invest in a truer that could do this type of work.  Slot Car Corner has the Tire Razor in stock for $159.

I like the series idea and would not want the tire truer to be the reason we decide not to hold the series.

Regarding a sandpaper truer, above the power supplies is a simple "tire cleaner" - a piece of carerra track with #300? sandpaper on it.  We use if for minor clean-up truing between races, and for HO cars.  I made it back in May when Bobby was taping paper onto the bench and truing his tires that way.

Regarding the Razor, I bought Dave's and adjusted it to make it actually level (it was not truing each side equally).  Mine works Ok - yes Ary it's not a precision tool but for carreras it would be ok.

ALSO - why dont we just allow Slot.It axles, wheels and 12mm tires?  I converted my Carerra 2016 GT40.  It is still Heavy and we should consider a Slot.It Orange endbell motor.  Everyone has spares and those that dont can buy parts from another member.

POSTED FOR RUSSELL

Some comments:

I like Ary's idea of individual voltage controllers. This would be especially good for series with a spec motor. The master voltage could be set to 11.5V or 12V to allow just a little variation for voltage, up to 15V for quite a lot. For Steve's Prototype/GT series, the GT cars could be set to a fixed, lower voltage.

I am opposed to any series requiring stock plastic wheels. A spec wheel could be required, if necessary.

I realize that the goal for series discussion and preliminary voting was to weed out less popular options to make the often long-winded discussion at the annual meeting more manageable, but I would hesitate to say that only the top six would be considered. There are too many variables on rules that would make some series more or less popular. Cases could be made at the meeting for particular rules that would make a low-ranking series much more palatable. We could probably eliminate those that are at the bottom of the preliminary voting.

If the Can Am series is voted in, I would like to see an open format. Simply requiring a maximum wheel width of 12mm would eliminate any, ahem....., creative wheel construction. I don't think it would be necessary to require F1 wheels, as they would be hard to find inserts for. Wheel diameter would be open as a wide variety of wheels were used. The F1 20 X 12 F22 Raptor tires will fit a standard wheel. I think the only other rule requirement would be to disallow any 1:30 or larger cars. Tires and wheels must fit within the body width.

IMHO
Russell

REVO SLOT PARTS
Hey guys, some of you are interested in spare tires.  Marty says the stock tires are very durable, but it does not hurt to have backups.
Alan (132slotcar.us) is in-process of documenting what parts he has, specifically tires, wheels, and guides. They are not on his website yet. When he does I will pass on the info (part-numbers, prices).
They are not (easy to find...) on Pendle's site nor BRM's site.